[00:00:00] Mick Hunt: Sometimes when you’re trying to be this perfect vision of yourself, you don’t feel like it’s okay to just break your own face. 

[00:00:08] Dima Ghawi: Invest in yourself. Knowledge is light and ignorance is darkness. So we need, we need to challenge the ignorant mindset. And the only way we do that is with knowledge. The main thing that leaders are struggling with today right now is To give feedback, people are afraid of having confrontation.

[00:00:29] They are afraid of truly telling their employees how they need to get better. That’s 

[00:00:35] Mick Hunt: the number one and two thing that your employees want. They want transparency and they want authenticity. And if you do those two things, trust me, communication is easy. So Dima, I totally agree with you.

[00:00:50] Podcast Intro: Welcome to Mic Unplugged, where we ignite potential and fuel purpose. Get ready for raw insights, bold moves, and game changing conversations. Buckle up. Here’s Mick. 

[00:01:01] Mick Hunt: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of make unplugged. And today our guest is an exceptional leadership coach, author and speaker with a profound dedication to empowering individuals and organizations to reach their highest potential, her expertise in global leadership and her passion for promoting diversity and inclusion have transformed countless lives and organizations through her inspirational story.

[00:01:27] and impactful coaching. She’s helped many break through barriers and achieve their personal dreams. It is my distinct pleasure to welcome the dynamic, the influential, the incomparable Ms. Dina Gawi. Dima, how are you today, dear? 

[00:01:42] Dima Ghawi: I make, I’m doing great. And I’m so happy to be with you today. 

[00:01:47] Mick Hunt: I am so honored that you were here, Dima.

[00:01:49] And here’s something that’s amazing. You know, I’ve seen a lot of your speeches. I’ve seen your Ted talk probably 5, 000 times and it starts out talking about the relation or not the relationship, but the story of your grandmother telling you about a girl and a woman and how to become one and, you know, breaking the vase and how that can never be put back together.

[00:02:10] And the first time that I heard that my mouth dropped because I had never thought of that parallel before. And I was like, that is so right. That is so right. So I would love for you to share a little bit of that story and how that sparked you to become who you are today. 

[00:02:25] Dima Ghawi: Yeah, sure. So yeah, it started when I was five years old and I was in my grandmother’s home.

[00:02:31] I always loved to be at my grandmother’s home. She always had fun games for us. And But that specific day, she was so much more serious than usual. And she got a glass vase. We were arranging flowers and she said, do you see this perfect glass vase? A girl is just like it. If it gets cracked for any reason, you can’t, you can’t fix it.

[00:02:53] You can’t glue it. No one would want it. And that’s the one we throw in the trash. So imagine being five year old, being taught this very scary visual, um, and, and like trying to learn a lesson of what does it even mean, the perfect glass vase and throwing it in the trash. So that’s where the story started, and the story was all about, um, Following, obeying, not having an identity, not understanding my purpose and knowing that if I am not perfect, that there’s going to be consequences.

[00:03:30] And so the journey is about being the perfect glass vase in a way, but it is getting to a point where there was, I could not continue to survive that way. And in order for me to continue to live, I needed to break up. I needed to challenge the norm. I needed to create something new. And of course there’s consequences, but it’s so much more worth it.

[00:03:55] Mick Hunt: I totally agree. And here’s where you inspired me. And I know that there are several listeners that are in that same scenario, right? Where Sometimes when you’re trying to be this perfect vision of yourself and most of the time it’s for other people or it’s for another entity, right? That you don’t feel like it’s okay to just break your own face.

[00:04:15] And that’s what I loved about that story because I sat there and I was like, someone needs to hear this, that it’s okay. And not only is it okay, But you should be looking to break that glass vase that you’re in because it’s usually someone else’s or some other thing’s vision of you that you’re trying to perfect.

[00:04:33] Dima Ghawi: And when, as I’m following your work, I hear, I hear you talk about find your because and, um, do like understand your because how can you understand? You’re because the foundation, if you are limited as a person, your thoughts, your dreams, your aspirations, you’re limited. But the worst part is when we’re limited, we don’t realize we end up limiting other people around us too.

[00:05:01] And that is the problem is like, if I kept my glass vase, perfect, most likely I would have passed it to the next generation and expected the same thing from them instead of, you know, doing what I’m doing right now and inspiring everybody to shatter their base as a result. 

[00:05:17] Mick Hunt: Yeah. And I’d love for you to tell the listeners and the viewers, that person that’s stuck right now, that’s like, okay, so I hear Dima and Mick telling me, I need to break my glass vase.

[00:05:29] What’s the first two steps that folks need to take in order to do that? 

[00:05:34] Dima Ghawi: Well, the first step is as simple as to discover that we all have a base, and it is normal. It doesn’t make us less. It doesn’t make us Bad or any of that. We all have it. And initially in my journey, I used to think it is just women.

[00:05:52] But now, as I’m coaching men and coaching executives is everybody’s every gender, every ethnicity. And the problem is, many times we end up Judging our own self and we don’t need an external person to tell us that we have to be perfect. We we start challenging ourselves. So it is mainly to just give ourself permission to realize.

[00:06:14] Yeah, we most I’m most likely have a vase and that’s okay. It doesn’t make me worse. It just makes me a human. That’s one. The second one is to really to start questioning everything questioning the norm questioning what other people told us about it. ourselves, our story about our journey, even the people we love and the people that we consider that they have our best interest in mind.

[00:06:39] So I don’t think anybody would love me more than my grandmother and my parents. But imagine all the limitations that I had to live with and continue to live with because of what Because of what they told me and what they taught me. I know you asked for two. I just have to share more. So the second one is to question, question everything.

[00:07:00] The third one is start observing people that you admire that went on a journey of shattering the norm and challenging the system and start questioning yourself. What do you like about their journey that inspires you? There’s a reason we’re inspired by them. Maybe they are helping us without even knowing us.

[00:07:21] To go on the last on the journey and final thing is invest in yourself. And I hear you talk a lot about that in your in your podcast in your videos. Invest in yourself. Don’t wait for somebody to invest in you. Don’t wait for a parent or a spouse or an organization. Invest in yourself. There’s a phrase in Arabic called, and that means knowledge is light.

[00:07:46] Invest in yourself. And ignorance is darkness. So we need we need to challenge the ignorant mindset. And the only way we do that is with knowledge. And knowledge doesn’t mean education. It is self awareness. It is knowledge about how we perceive ourselves, knowledge about our surrounding. I believe when we bring light and knowledge into our life and we’re inspired by others and we realize That it is human to have a base that’s going to inspire us to do something in our lives and shatter the whole base.

[00:08:20] Mick Hunt: Dima, we could do this all day. I think we should just have a show. This, the, the Dima and Mick show. I 

[00:08:26] Dima Ghawi: think that’s a great idea. 

[00:08:28] Mick Hunt: Let’s do it. Let’s do it. So. You know, you know, on the show, we talk about your because and how it should be deeper than your why. I think the audience wants to know what is Dimas because and I know that it evolves and changes over time and it should.

[00:08:42] But if I were to say right now, what’s Dimas because right now? 

[00:08:46] Dima Ghawi: Oh, wow. Wow. My because right now is to make a huge difference in the world where it is. It where it would allow the pain and the misery and struggles in my life to have a meaning in other people’s lives. So it’s so important for me to realize that there was a purpose for the struggles that I had, and it’s beyond me.

[00:09:12] It is the purpose of making, um, making other people’s lives better, and I agree with you. It evolved. Because when early in my life, um, because I’ve been dealing with death threats from my father for the last 23 years early in my life, it was about Survival just to survive as a woman, Middle Eastern woman here in the U.

[00:09:35] S. Dealing with death threats. It’s called honor killing, and it was just because I broke the base by leaving an abusive marriage as simple as that. So it was survival, surviving financially, surviving emotionally, surviving physically, just survival. And then it evolved a little to self discovery and self love.

[00:09:58] So I needed to like go through healing and that was my, because it is, I was doing what I was doing because I was hungry to, to, uh, to heal and to love who I am and accept who I am. And now it’s evolved where I’m like, okay, I’m there. And now it’s a matter of making a difference and showing people the path and helping them discover.

[00:10:20] because as well. 

[00:10:22] Mick Hunt: That’s amazing. And I want to unpack something that you just talked about if you allow us to go there. So you, you talked about receiving death threats from your father and, and I want all the listeners and viewers to understand the intensity of that because, you know, here in the United States, right?

[00:10:38] Like we have this thing, your daddy’s girl. And so to have that type of mentality and then to go to receiving death threats from your father. Like, what was that like for you? 

[00:10:49] Dima Ghawi: Oh, it was horrible. Uh, and I agree with you about the daddy’s girl. And I also heard a lot that the dad is the girl, the daughter’s first love, right?

[00:10:59] So it is the person. The girl would look up to and all of that, and I, it is feeling judged feeling that I’m not good enough that I’m not worthy of living just because I wanted to, I was miserable in my life in that, in that relationship. So it was. And choice that I was given either to live, be perfect and be accepted or to challenge the norm.

[00:11:26] And then I don’t deserve to live. So I had to make that choice. And that choice came by, um, me deciding that I want a different life and I deserve a different life. But that resulted in the death threats for the last 23 years. 

[00:11:42] Mick Hunt: Well, and as you know, you definitely deserve and have earned that better life.

[00:11:46] So I’m definitely proud of you. For that, 

[00:11:48] Dima Ghawi: you know, 

[00:11:49] Mick Hunt: and now a lot of your work that you do with corporations and businesses is on diversity and inclusion. What, what sparked that interest for you? Like what specifically said, I’m going to focus on that avenue. 

[00:12:04] Dima Ghawi: Yeah. Well, being excluded, right. Um, I want to, I want to give voice to people, um, and help them discover their potential, help them to shatter their vases and limitations.

[00:12:17] People like me, people that were excluded, people that were told that they’re not good enough, that they, they’re not in the right, uh, um, right fit because of their skin color, because of their ethnicity, because of their, all of these things. I, I wanted to make this difference because I went through the pain.

[00:12:36] I’ve been, I’ve been to a place where I was, I felt that I’m not good enough because of external factors, and I want to change that. So that’s how I got into diversity, equity and inclusion. I was very fortunate that the demand like people were were connecting with my messages. They’re connecting with my story, and in a way, it’s giving them a different way to hear about D.

[00:13:02] I. From a woman’s perspective, a Middle Eastern woman’s perspective. And, um, so yeah, it is, it’s a big part of my purpose and I’m, I’m grateful for, for, for being part of this. 

[00:13:16] Mick Hunt: And I’m going to let the listeners and viewers understand Deema is never going to brag. So I’m going to, I’m going to pull this out of Deema really quick because Deema is one of the top five business coaches in the world.

[00:13:27] And that’s, that’s based on me, but, but literally Deema is one of the top five greatest business coaches that we have. So Dima, a little bit of bragging that you can do. What are some of the impacts that your efforts have had on organizations? What are some of the things that you’ve seen in the organizations that you’ve worked with specifically from the DEI perspective?

[00:13:48] Dima Ghawi: Yes. Well, I’ll tell you where it started and now where it’s ending. Uh, one, one organization. The board of directors were so resisting to anything related to DEI. Like they didn’t want to even see me. They didn’t want to hear me. Um, they were saying things that made no sense about how implementing DEI is going to make us a socialist country.

[00:14:10] And we’re going to collapse just like, uh, the, you know, like, That is countries in Eastern Europe, and they would say things that made no sense. But then working with them, reaching out to them, understanding their own fears and securities, understanding where the misinformation they were getting and continuing to be persistent.

[00:14:31] Now, four years later, Not only did they implement DEI initiatives, some of the board members, they realized their own resistance. So now they’re going to become they are in the process of being DEI certified through Cornell. And we, we trained the entire company. We have a top talent program to ensure that it is, uh, that it’s a pipeline that is diverse, that we are grooming the next generation of leaders and they’re from different ethnicities and genders and all of that.

[00:15:07] So that’s just within four years, but it’s a matter of starting with the resistance, understanding where it’s coming from and understanding for me, which is very difficult, not to judge them. because of their own biases instead to work with them and help take them on the journey with me. It’s that little steps at a time.

[00:15:27] Now, when I look back after just four years, we we’ve achieved a lot and it’s just like one little step at a time. 

[00:15:36] Mick Hunt: Amazing. Amazing. You know, we both share a very similar passion with leadership development as well, too. What are some of the challenges that you see leaders facing today? 

[00:15:49] Dima Ghawi: You know, that’s such a great question.

[00:15:51] And the main thing that leaders are struggling with today right now is to give feedback and to give constructive feedback. People are afraid of having confrontation. They are afraid of Truly telling their employees how they need to get better. And as a result, these employees, they think everything is fine and they’re doing a great job, but then the leader is not happy with their performance, but nobody gave them the feedback.

[00:16:21] So it is so shocking to me that I have to work with a C suite right now and teach them how to have difficult conversations. And teach them how to give constructive feedback. You would think this stuff is basic, like maybe it’s basic for you and I, but it’s not, and everybody is afraid of making other people uncomfortable.

[00:16:42] Everybody’s afraid that they’re going to be sued. And we don’t need to give a feedback in a way where we’re going to be sued, but what can we do to be effective and realize that when we give feedback, we’re serving our employees. We’re helping them to be better instead of just avoiding all of that. 

[00:17:00] Mick Hunt: No, I totally agree.

[00:17:01] And you know, I tell the entities that I coach very similar to you. People want feedback. People actually want to be better. And it’s how you communicate it. Is what’s going to separate you from being an average leader to being a good leader and a positive leader, right? It’s okay to tell me I’m doing something wrong.

[00:17:22] It’s okay to be transparent about the goals that we have and whether I’m hitting them or not, because, and this is what I tell my, my entities. Most of your employees are leaders in their household and communities. So they understand they may not be a leader or a senior leader within your organization, but the moment that they walk out of your doors, They’re probably a leader.

[00:17:43] And so just be very transparent and be authentic because that’s the number one and two thing that your employees want. They want transparency and they want authenticity. And if you do those two things, trust me, communication is easy. So Dima, I totally agree with you. 

[00:17:56] Dima Ghawi: Yeah. Like even tomorrow. Um, I have a meeting with the chief operating officer and one of the employees because the employee has been asking why I am not being promoted.

[00:18:07] Everything I’m doing is great. My manager thinks I’m great, but they don’t see her as a leader. They don’t see her. She’s qualified. To even be to advance and as a result, what’s going on? We’re having this gap in communication where the employee is not happy and the leadership team are not happy too. So I’m glad, I’m glad you and I are on the same page, but it is, it’s like the biggest challenge right now.

[00:18:31] Mick Hunt: Totally agree. Totally agree. So for the new leader. Right. So someone that’s transitioning to leadership within their organization, what advice would you have for that new leader, particularly as it relates to fostering an inclusive culture? 

[00:18:47] Dima Ghawi: Start with self discovery. It’s as simple as that. Get to learn who you are as a person.

[00:18:54] What are your strengths as a leader? Um, how, what is the way you communicate and how you manage conflict? Many times. People get promoted into leadership roles just because they’re good at what they do. So maybe they are the best IT professional. Great. Let’s promote that person. But that person may not know who they are and what is the best way to, how do they communicate?

[00:19:18] What are their, uh, what are their blind spots? They don’t know that. So start. With self discoveries, invest in yourself to learn who you are. And when we get to know who we are, then it’s going to be easier for us to adapt to others because we appreciate who we are, we get it, and then we can continue to adapt.

[00:19:38] How can we be servant leaders? How can we drive inclusion and make a difference for our team if we don’t even know who we are? And that’s the kind of people I see all around. They don’t know who they are, but they’re trying. And they’re just focused on the bottom line. 

[00:19:56] Mick Hunt: Agree. Completely agree. Here’s an interesting question for you.

[00:20:00] Because so I’m writing a book and I have a chapter about this in my book. So I want to hear from Dima. What are leaders doing wrong that they think they’re doing right? Right? Like, what are leaders doing wrong? That they think that they’re doing right. And I’ll give you an example. So one of my things is, you know, leaders are over delegating, but calling it empowerment, right?

[00:20:25] It’s like, Oh, I’m going to give you all these responsibilities, but I’m calling it empowerment, but you’re really not empowering anyone. You’re just giving people more things to do. 

[00:20:36] Dima Ghawi: Wow, that’s like such a wonderful question. What they’re doing wrong that they think they’re doing right. I’m gonna link it to what I answered earlier.

[00:20:46] They think they’re doing right, which is not having confrontation and not having difficult conversation with their team, which results being wrong because you’re not having opportunities. To develop your team and to have these meaningful discussions that would make them even better. I used to have a manager, my, when I, my first management job, my manager, anytime I did something that was not great, or I could have done better.

[00:21:13] He would say, Dima, let’s have a learning moment. So he shifted the mindset to learning. Let’s have a learning moment. So that took out a lot of the, uh, you know, the, The fear of being judged and instead it is, it’s created an environment of learning and curiosity and creativity. And that’s what a lot of managers are missing out on.

[00:21:36] They’re not giving the learning moments. They think it’s fine, but they end up hurting their team. 

[00:21:42] Mick Hunt: Oh, I love that. I love that. That’s amazing. So. Dima, I’d love, you know, the last couple of minutes that we have what’s new and exciting in the worlds of Dima. Like, what are you doing? What do you have going on?

[00:21:54] Dima Ghawi: Yeah, a lot of exciting things. So 1 huge exciting thing that’s going on is I am in conversation with you. Two producers to turn my story into a movie. And I understand that this is going to take time. I get it. Uh, I’m just so happy about it. There’s one producer in LA and the other one in Saudi. So the Saudi one will cover the Middle Eastern aspect, even though I never been to Saudi or, um, but it is a country that they’re investing in the movie industry.

[00:22:27] And. The Middle Eastern part, the Jordan part of the story would be shot in Saudi. And then the other part would be shot in Louisiana. So, uh, this is like the biggest huge project that is in the horizon. So we found a person who to work on the screenplay. And, uh, right now we’re just in conversation about that.

[00:22:49] So this is the big thing. The other big thing is, um, online cohorts. For leadership development, I realize a lot of organizations, especially the small ones, they may not be able to afford someone like you or me to come and train everybody. But if they select their top talent, and especially if they are from underrepresented groups, I’m putting together these online cohorts for, for leadership development and their two year programs, all about to get them on the vision to, to advance in, to become the future CEO.

[00:23:23] Mick Hunt: Oh, that’s amazing. Have you started, is it complete? Do you have your first cohort ready? 

[00:23:28] Dima Ghawi: Yes, we started. So that started, um, it started two months ago and it’s going so well. And it’s all things that you and I enjoy things like coaching and workshops and conversations and, um, initiatives to help them think differently.

[00:23:45] If we want to advance and continue to advance in leadership, we need to start thinking about how, how would a CEO. Do certain things. And when we start thinking that way and I’m helping them with that and helping them with their communication, then, uh, that’s, that’s the vision, right? That’s the North star that we’re guiding them through.

[00:24:05] So yes, it started and I absolutely love it. It’s just a matter of continuing to grow it. 

[00:24:09] Mick Hunt: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So where can people follow you, find you, where do you want people to connect with you? 

[00:24:17] Dima Ghawi: So they can connect with me on my website. It’s my name. So D I M A G H A W I dot com. Um, they can connect with me on social media and every, I am everywhere on social media.

[00:24:30] I would love to hear about their story, their journey, their vases, and hopefully to keep inspiring them to shatter these vases and to continue to thrive. 

[00:24:40] Mick Hunt: Amazing. The incomparable Miss Dima Galloway. Dima, it has been an honor to have you on. We’re going to have to do this again. This was too fun to just have one episode of Dima Galloway.

[00:24:52] Dima Ghawi: Well, let’s, let’s schedule the next one. We can have as many episodes as you want. 

[00:24:57] Mick Hunt: We’re going to make that happen. Dima, thank you so much. I know how busy you are and you took some special time out of your day to make this happen. So appreciative of that piece. Thank you so much. 

[00:25:07] Dima Ghawi: Thank you, Mick. I love the opportunity.

[00:25:10] Mick Hunt: You got it. And for all the listeners, remember your because is your superpower. Go unleash it.

[00:25:20] Podcast Intro: Thank you for tuning in to Mic Unplugged. Keep pushing your limits, embracing your purpose, and chasing greatness. Until next time, stay unstoppable.